honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:15,978
Points:1,248,125
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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2012 5:41:45 AM
rjhenn: some people drink too much contaminated water so all they can do is spew Faux Noise b/c their brain has been partly liquified.
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rjhenn
Champion Author
Des Moines
Posts:18,256
Points:1,874,445
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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2012 12:25:50 AM
Cheepo - "Just build that pipeline already!!!!!!!!!!!"
Why?
Apparently the only ones who will benefit from it are the oil companies and TransCanada.
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Cheepo
Champion Author
Tampa
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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2012 9:02:17 AM
Just build that pipeline already!!!!!!!!!!!
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LWB_Sr
Champion Author
Tennessee
Posts:11,249
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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2012 7:38:53 AM
SkyWarnTX, your link forgot this part:
"During his time in the Senate and while running for president, Obama received a total of $77,051 from the oil giant and is the top recipient of BP PAC and individual money over the past 20 years, according to financial disclosure records......"
Read more on this link:
Obama biggest recipient of BP cash
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LWB_Sr
Champion Author
Tennessee
Posts:11,249
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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2012 7:24:38 AM
honda0105, - Part of your post: ".....Those who are smart enough to not fall for rhetorics know that TransCanada is doing lots of window dressing to pretend the wolf is a sheep....."
Just in case this statement of yours is not more "unverified rhetoric", why then is there no documented evidence of the danger released to the public by those that oppose the Keystone Pipeline?????????
Are we to believe that current technology COULD NOT build a pipeline that is safe, when there are already hundreds of pipelines in every state in the union?
Seems to me that this is mostly lies, and more lies, designed to meet political ends to promote the folly of costly energy alternatives, like Solindra, etc.
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SkyWarnTX
All-Star Author
Texas
Posts:945
Points:56,845
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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2012 6:11:22 AM
---
U.S. OIL Companies Export 117 million gallons per day of Refined GASOLINE... from U.S. to OTHER COUNTRIES...
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REPUBLICAN MANIPULATION of the OIL MARKETS - 'Huge Political Consequences'..., The Major Oil Companies shutting down REFINERIES for "MAINTENANCE" all at ONCE is COLLUSION...
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REPUBLICANS in the HOUSE funded by OIL & GAS INDUSTRY MONEY
http://maplight.org/content/72909
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REPUBLICANS in the SENATE funded by OIL & GAS INDUSTRY MONEY
http://maplight.org/content/72927
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...Even FOREST GUMP could see through the Manipulation
---
[Edited by: SkyWarnTX at 2/11/2012 9:13:09 AM EST]
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honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:15,978
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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2012 5:41:11 AM
Those who are smart enough to not fall for rhetorics know that TransCanada is doing lots of window dressing to pretend the wolf is a sheep.
Ever wondered (if you even bothered to know) why the ONLY job figures come from TransCanada and why there are multiple numbers floating? Why there is no independent confirmation of TransCanada's claim? Add to that the fact that much of metal pipes are done and only need to be put into place (right now they're rusting away in Canada's winter).
And to add insult to injury, Canada would not have to pay for spill clean up, fresh water for the people affected by spills and the refined products can be exported without tax income for the US. All at the cost to US taxpayers while TransCanada reaps the profits for transporting the bitumen to the Texan coast.
Now, let's see... who is still a big supporter? Oh yea, I see those who put cheap gas entitlement mentality ahead of clean drinking water and jobs.
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Gas_Buzzer
Champion Author
South Carolina
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2012 8:07:14 AM
Unions in two simple words...STUPID and LAZY ! ! !
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GasPriceHelp4u
All-Star Author
Dayton
Posts:859
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2012 3:29:54 AM
Politics as usual!!! Labor force is confused as to what to support and what not to!!!
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nb52
Champion Author
Grand Rapids
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2012 3:20:47 AM
Me thinks our Maximum Leader doesn't care what the folks want, or what's good for them.
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Alaydown
Champion Author
Los Angeles
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2012 2:32:01 AM
Martinman, I have to give it to you that you are skilled at exaggeration. You are also way out there in your views and sometimes act like a child when you are called on specifics. I refuse to get into this again on a point by point post, but I will state a few things.
No, the BP disaster was NEVER the level of a 9-11 disaster; therefore, you can never call it the same as 9-11's loss of life. If Obama had not waited so many weeks to respond, the mess would not have been that great. There were several viable solutions proposed by many that could have greatly reduced the size of the disaster, but Obama chose to wait several weeks to do anything. It was that delay that cost the region loss of tourism and losses to the fishing industry. His outright ban on deepwater drilling and new shallow water drilling devastated the region's economy more than the BP disaster did.
Loss of life greatly outweighs the scope of any BP disaster. As I previously stated, the end result would not have been much. Had it been an Airbus crash, you would not have seen Obama ground all aircraft, but such a crash would have exceeded the level of the BP disaster.
There still was zero need for any 6-month moratorium (which is actually several years vice 6 months in some parts of the Gulf according to his Interior Secretary). As I previously stated, there was no evidence of any safety issue with any other drilling platform. After the moratorium was over, there still is no evidence of it.
Investigations go on without grounding all aircraft. It does not matter what the story was with BP's platform, the circumstances behind it, or the difficulty in trying to determine just what went wrong. It all could have been investigated without banning all deepwater drilling or banning additional shallow water drilling permits.
Your B-1 comparison is valid but does not change anything. Again I was talking about grounding all aircraft for one airline's crash. I do recall B-1s being grounded, but I don't recall how much time in operational service it had when that occurred. Sure there are other comparisons early in the life of a complex aircraft put into service such as the AV-8 Harrier or the V-22 Osprey. Yes, they were grounded for periods when they were relatively new, but that did not lead to grounding all military aircraft.
Again we circle back to the main point, that drilling operations have been conducted safely for not just several years, but for decades. And why did that investigation into BP affect shallow water drilling permits? It should not have been affected if the purpose was merely to investigate the BP disaster.
Again you bring up grounding of aircraft after 9-11. Apples and oranges, night and day. It did not last that long, and military aircraft as you admitted did fly missions after 9-11 just as I previously posted. Regardless of your recollection, it is fact that aircraft were grounded for only 2.5 days after 9-11.
Since you brought up Air Force One, you should also recall that Bush's Chief of Staff and the Secret Service wanted him to be airborne during the crisis in case there was still a danger in DC. But Bush chose where he wanted to be, and that was on the ground in DC. After the attacks, he flew from Florida to DC. Three days later (on 9/14/01) he flew to NYC where he made the famous quote, "...And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon!"
"Funny, you can outright deface the President, use other terms about those with whom you have political differences, but I use one wrong letter in a forum nic name and you come unglued?"
I was not the divisive one with the name calling. Aside from your refusing to accept posted opinions different from your own without calling us all "stupid" and other personal attacks, you seemed to feel you could try to belittle me by intentionally mistyping my nickname in more than one of your posts. I merely called you on it for acting like a child. That is not coming "unglued."
It is funny that the original post that upset you so was, “You don't ban commercial airliners when there is a plane crash. For the same reason, you should not ban deep water drilling when there is one mishap. We need the oil and the jobs. The pipeline will provide both, and there is no valid reason for cutting off the Keystone XL except that Obama wants to appease his extreme left wing base. There are pipelines all over this country. Why has this one become the line in the sand with Obama and environmentalists?”
All of the above statement is valid, especially the point about there being pipelines all over the USA. But Obama decided to appease his left wing environmentalist base by vetoing Keystone and continuing to obstruct domestic production of oil and gasoline.
There is not one point in the above statement that you refuted except to claim a comparison of the BP disaster to 9-11.
You stated your case, and I have stated mine. Given that Obama announced he would not make a decision on the pipeline until “after the election,” you cannot very well claim that he was not concerned with upsetting either his liberal union base or his left wing environmentalist base before the election. His announcing that he would not give his decision until after the election confirms the fear he had. Congress forced him to announce the decision that he already had made on the pipeline, and it will cost him more votes than he will gain from it.
I have no desire to carry this thread any further through PM or by any other means, but I will be watching for your posts on other articles in the future. I will respond to those if you post other outrageous claims. I am sure you will do the same if you disagree with my posts.
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tomok
Champion Author
Portland
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2012 12:08:00 AM
Membership in Unions Supporting Obama on Keystone Rejection Outnumbers Those Against. Unions and Barry, together – go figure!
The price of fuel at the pump is too high!
12/22/2012!
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Martinman
Champion Author
Mississippi
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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2012 12:01:58 AM
And your comparision of the British Petroleum spill to the *banning* commercial aircraft for a single aircraft crash to is like comparing a tactical nuke to a Mark 82. The two events are not even close in terms of their scope of impact. You're basing your comparison upon the number of lives lost, I'm basing mine upon the severity of the incident, in relation to other such incidents within the same type of mishap. The Deep Water Horizon was not a "simple crash" in terms of a spill. It was of the magnitude of a 9/11 type crash, which is why I used it as an analogy.
Both the British Petroleum accident and 9/11 were significant events that affected the U.S. on a national scale, both even to the point of affecting the economy. If the commercial aviation industry had the number of crashes required to result in 3,500+ deaths in a single day, there would be an extended standdown. It would be unprecedented within the industry - much as the Deep Water Horizon event was, much as 9/11 was.
I distinctly remember sitting just outside the main gate as I was driving in to instruct an EP sim that morning, having come back from leave the prior evening. I remember watching every aircraft on our base that was airborne landing, while listening to the radio, and the base essentially going into a lock-down mode. All gates were closed to all incoming and outgoing traffic. When I finally got through hours later, I was told since I lived offbase, to go home and await a telephone recall. How many times as a military pilot can you say that has happened to you?
My point was that when there's a significant flying mishap, or series of mishaps, people stop doing what they were doing to evaluate why the mishap occurred. In single aircraft events, it may result in a 1 or 2 day standdown, event if not a single life is lost. But when you have a series of mishaps, or a single event of the scope of 9/11, you step back for a period of time until the event is fully understood and a reocurrence of the mishap can be prevented. The comparison isn't about the number of people killed, but the scope of the incident in comparison to other significant events of its type.
The British Petroleum Deep Water Horizon event was the largest offshore spill in U.S. history, and the largest in the western hemisphere, going nearly 3 months before it was temporarily capped. You tried to equate that event to a single crash, I equated it to a signficant "worst ever" kind of mishap event, like it was.
During 9/11 *ALL* aircraft were directed to land by the FAA - ALL AIRCRAFT. The only exception were the few fighter on the East coast that were subsequently scrambled to intercept possible threats until all commercial aircraft were on the ground. EVEN AIR FORCE ONE dashed to and then from Barksdale AFB, and then to Offutt AFB, while the President's team was trying to determine the extent of the attack, and decisions were made on where to stage the President until the initial fog cleared. Prior to that time I had been the Wing Airspace Officer at the base, and contacts at Memphis ARTCC that I knew personally wouldn't even tell us what was going on - simpy that the FAA in Washington had directed that all airborne aircraft land immediately, no exceptions.
The ONLY aircraft that flew the week of 9/11, were select patrols established near Washington D.C. and New York City, as well as a tanker support aircraft to increase their loiter time and extend their intercept range if it were to become necessary. I was in the eastern U.S. at the time, but my understanding is that no aircraft were scrambled on the West coast, nor did any fly subsequent CAP-type missions. From my recollection, all other coastal interceptor aircraft were placed on alert, flying off alert only to replace recovering airborn alert aircraft were such patrols were flying. ALL non-essential military flights and training were grounded. ALL.
To the best of my knowledge, no commercial flights were allowed to enter from outside U.S. airspace, all were diverted to alternate airfields outside the U.S., or return to their point of departure. Those commercial aircraft that were allowed to move in the latter part of the first week, were to reposition crew and aircraft, due to the shear volume that had diverted into Canada - not to resume normal carrier operations.
As more became known within the channels, only critical military flights resumed (movement of key officials, repositioning of aircraft for alert duties, tanker aircraft for their support, etc.). Standard aircrew training did not. So while a few critical sorties were flown, for all practical purposes even the military was ground by the FAA.
I'm a former military pilot with 6,000 hours and 1,500 hours as an IP, former squadron-level Safety Officer, former member of base level emergency response and evaluation team, and I too have been involved in Class A mishaps - but only on the military side. I didn't fly in the Navy, but did fly into numerous Navy and Marine NASs (Alameda, Key West, Millington Field, Mirimar, Moffett Field, Norfolk, Pensacola, Point Mugu). So the difference in our experiences reflect the differences between the branches of service, we both know they did many things differently then (and probably still do even now).
My aviation experience is 20 years plus college. The gas saving "tip" I posted as a joke with someone else, I added today - you can ask PD - as a mockery of some of the absurd tips you see posted here. Wall Street was closed due to it's proximity to the towers.
You're focusing solely on the length of the moratorium, without looking at the circumstances behind it, or the difficulty in trying to determine just what went wrong. Not to mention British Petroleum's lying about the severity of the leak for nearly a month, hiding data and video, and other things is did in trying to control the PR damage. The various players focusing on trying to put the blame on each other versus trying to determine "why", not to mention the difficulty in even getting to the leak itself to begin with.
And while you are correct that commercial aircraft don't get grounded for 6-months, there have been instances in some military aircraft accidents were there are extended grounding of affected aircraft, often as a result of discovering a structural problem during an investigation, and grounding all aircraft until the entire fleet has inspected, and then aircraft are only allowed back into service once cleared by the inspection or repaired. How about the B-1 and it's fuel leaks, remember that one? How long were they grounded? How many permanent hanger-queens resulted from that?
We really didn't know what happened for months. While there were some pretty good indications, there was nothing defintive on which all other possible causes could be eliminated. Was it due solely to the column of pipe collapsing onto the blowoutpreventer (BOP), an operator error in trying to activate the BOP, a failure of the automatic mode of the BOP, or a fundamental design flaw with the BOP when it was activated. No one really knew - except for British Petroleum which was being hush-hush to cover its ass, and limit potential liability claims for the incident.
How many months was it, before the BOP was finally lifted from the Gulf floor? How many months later, that the possibility of a design fault in the preventer was completely eliminated as possibly contributing to the spill? The same BOP that was being used for all the deep water drilling at that time. And until the BOP could be completely eliminated as a possible fault, it was prudent to exercise safety above all else until such risks were eliminated.
And what about Haliburton? There were concerns over Haliburton's cementing of the well. Was this a case of a "sloppy job", or indicaitve or cutting corners on this well, as well as others it had cemented in the Gulf?
As far as drilling activity, there have been articles stating that Gulf drilling as retunted to pre-spill levels. Yes a few deepwater drilling platforms left, but a few moved into the Gulf to replace them.ially set the casing with cement
This has already gone on too long. I have fundamental diagreements with your their subsequent statements, but they're unrelated to the topic of this article. You want to discuss them via PM, fine - but this ia already too long, not taking into account all the political rhetoric.
Funny, you can outright deface the President, use other terms about those with whom you have political differences, but I use one wrong letter in a forum nic name and you come unglued?
And let's not forget, who is repying to who's lengthy response.
[Edited by: Martinman at 2/10/2012 3:11:31 AM EST]
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Krykson
All-Star Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 11:45:52 PM
Interesting
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joel27nc
Champion Author
Raleigh
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 9:08:51 PM
Get rid of the unions, they just as greedy as corporate America.
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LoneGuy
Champion Author
Lansing
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 9:03:32 PM
So the Service Employees Union is against jobs. I guess it is about their jobs and not other's jobs.
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KAR120CSII
Champion Author
Oregon
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:58:31 PM
Interesting post -- thanks, tho' it seems to draw out the worse in some of our GBers.
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DrCashFlow
Champion Author
Massachusetts
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:54:53 PM
Idiots
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wwardyota
Champion Author
Honolulu
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:45:53 PM
hey, a forward-thinking, environmentally concerned union allegiance! alright!
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hank1326
Champion Author
Los Angeles
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:43:36 PM
Huge ditto to taximan007. This president is good at talking and making broken promises.
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ty58
Sophomore Author
Akron
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:40:16 PM
sometimes the union only get limited information sometime they get the full picture but how much of that information is really put out
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BKool
Champion Author
Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:38:30 PM
Thank you Alaydown.
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bif65
All-Star Author
Virginia
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:34:55 PM
ok
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taximan007
Champion Author
Indianapolis
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:34:18 PM
some unions backed Bummer when he promised them all kinds of goodies if they re-elected him. Heaven forbid !!!!!
_______________________________
And remember, he was going to be "everybody's President" and "wasn't going to cater to special interests".
Hah, what a bunch of BS and yet another Obama broken promise.
[Edited by: taximan007 at 2/9/2012 11:34:59 PM EST]
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suzmar
Champion Author
Texas
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:32:33 PM
What does the SEIU care about the pipeline, they represent primarily government employees.
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taximan007
Champion Author
Indianapolis
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:32:13 PM
Unions are just another wing of the Democrat party.
Your wallet: The only place Democrats are willing to drill. ;)
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judgemobile
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:31:55 PM
some unions backed Bummer when he promised them all kinds of goodies if they re-elected him. Heaven forbid !!!!!
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drobbbb
Champion Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:26:39 PM
interesting
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orcar
Champion Author
Boise
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:25:51 PM
Unions are backing Obama because he is giving them what they want to the detriment of the country.
[Edited by: orcar at 2/9/2012 11:26:26 PM EST]
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skb69sa
Champion Author
San Antonio
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:21:57 PM
Interesting
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Jeeputtputt
Champion Author
Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:21:16 PM
praise ?????????
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vibdata
Champion Author
Massachusetts
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:19:03 PM
This entire concept is one that should never have gotten off a piece of paper in the drawing room. Let Canadians refine and use their own oil. Cheaper. LOCAL. No transport. Cheaper.
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SparkieMi
Champion Author
Kalamazoo
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:18:52 PM
Interesting....
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JesseJack52
All-Star Author
Virginia Beach
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:17:53 PM
TO BAD....REALLY!
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bonzoonfmb
All-Star Author
Florida
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:16:35 PM
Unions being involved don't ease my mind about the project.
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sammy518
Champion Author
Austin
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:16:16 PM
O K !
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KY_Homeboy
Sophomore Author
Kentucky
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:15:39 PM
Union support or not for Obama - our country needs the jobs/work this pipeline will generate. Weather we refine it here or someone does it in another country, it's still going to be burned somewhere & the gases released. We might as well reap as much of the benefit from it as we can
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melvindale
All-Star Author
Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:15:38 PM
Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union! Go Union!
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theschmuck
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Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:13:40 PM
'Alaydown' - glad you took the time to write your statement.
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Akcamper
Veteran Author
Tucson
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:13:25 PM
SCREWED AGAIN!
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DustyHorse
Champion Author
Virginia
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:12:23 PM
Of course the unions will always prefer a Democratic President.
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nwsynthetics
All-Star Author
Oregon
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:09:39 PM
Ok unions.........
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BooHooMI
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Michigan
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:09:23 PM
What a crock!
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methaneman
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Minnesota
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:09:11 PM
What are they smoking???
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LostToo
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:09:00 PM
Who Cares
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freerobert
Champion Author
California
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:08:38 PM
Politics. Things take so long with lots of arguments.
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36_ACRES_4_SALE
All-Star Author
Appleton
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:08:35 PM
Solidarity
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ClevelandWheele
Sophomore Author
Florida
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:07:19 PM
Blah...
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SandeeC
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:06:55 PM
Not surprising.
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abcdMA
Champion Author
Worcester
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2012 8:05:40 PM
a political decision totally
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